1 00:00:17,241 --> 00:00:19,344 REPORTER: Prosecutors say Kimberly Lynn Cates, 2 00:00:19,448 --> 00:00:21,241 42, a nurse and mother, 3 00:00:21,344 --> 00:00:23,517 died of wounds to her head, torso, 4 00:00:23,620 --> 00:00:25,000 arms, and legs. 5 00:00:26,103 --> 00:00:27,931 Daughter, Jaimie, an 11-year-old 6 00:00:28,034 --> 00:00:30,551 sixth grader, remains in intensive care, 7 00:00:30,655 --> 00:00:32,655 her throat cut, a leg broken. 8 00:00:32,758 --> 00:00:34,413 There are reports she managed to 9 00:00:34,517 --> 00:00:37,482 call 911 after the attack for help. 10 00:00:37,586 --> 00:00:40,206 We just kept saying to ourselves, "Why that, 11 00:00:40,310 --> 00:00:42,413 you know, seemingly unassuming home?" 12 00:00:58,724 --> 00:01:01,758 [theme music playing] 13 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:10,965 MAN: The thing inside of me, it's like... 14 00:01:12,379 --> 00:01:14,103 the appetite -- it's like a wolf that's... 15 00:01:15,793 --> 00:01:19,034 feeling the hunger. 16 00:01:28,275 --> 00:01:30,689 REPORTER: New Hampshire State Troopers have just arrested 17 00:01:30,793 --> 00:01:32,586 four individuals suspected for 18 00:01:32,689 --> 00:01:34,827 the brutal murder of Kimberly Cates. 19 00:01:34,931 --> 00:01:38,275 Her daughter, Jaimie, remains in critical condition. 20 00:01:38,379 --> 00:01:41,655 Police were allegedly tipped off from multiple witnesses 21 00:01:41,758 --> 00:01:43,275 reporting that four teenagers 22 00:01:43,379 --> 00:01:46,379 were heard bragging about the murder to friends. 23 00:01:46,482 --> 00:01:49,137 The suspects were identified as Steven Spader, 24 00:01:49,241 --> 00:01:52,896 Christopher Gribble, Quinn Glover, and William Marks. 25 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,448 All four suspects are now in custody of the New Hampshire 26 00:01:55,551 --> 00:01:57,689 State Police with charges pending. 27 00:03:00,862 --> 00:03:03,448 Gribble's reaction to investigators, 28 00:03:03,551 --> 00:03:06,620 when he's questioned about this brutal crime, 29 00:03:06,724 --> 00:03:11,000 is inconsistent with how a lot of typical teenage boys 30 00:03:11,103 --> 00:03:12,517 and teenagers would react. 31 00:03:12,620 --> 00:03:15,931 He's very calm, he's very even in his tone. 32 00:03:16,034 --> 00:03:18,689 But what he also is doing is he's impression managing. 33 00:03:18,793 --> 00:03:21,793 He's trying to push a narrative on the investigators 34 00:03:21,896 --> 00:03:23,517 about how he couldn't possibly 35 00:03:23,620 --> 00:03:26,172 be someone that would do this, and that he's this upstanding 36 00:03:26,275 --> 00:03:27,724 member of society. 37 00:04:21,137 --> 00:04:24,689 Individuals, when they want to control the interview 38 00:04:24,793 --> 00:04:27,586 or they want to manipulate the person that's 39 00:04:27,689 --> 00:04:30,448 interviewing them, they'll dance around the question. 40 00:04:30,551 --> 00:04:33,448 It is hypocritical, because just a few minutes ago, 41 00:04:33,551 --> 00:04:35,655 he said, you know, "I'm chivalrous," 42 00:04:35,758 --> 00:04:38,413 implying, like, "I would be helpful if I could." 43 00:04:38,517 --> 00:04:41,620 But here we see him later in the interview basically not 44 00:04:41,724 --> 00:04:43,724 giving up any information, 45 00:04:43,827 --> 00:04:47,482 being incredibly vague, insincere, and just all around 46 00:04:47,586 --> 00:04:49,344 not helpful. 47 00:04:49,448 --> 00:04:51,379 He's almost challenging them. 48 00:04:51,482 --> 00:04:53,000 "Prove that you have anything on me. 49 00:04:53,103 --> 00:04:55,689 Otherwise, you know, I'm walking out of here." 50 00:05:29,896 --> 00:05:32,137 What the detective is starting to do is confront him, 51 00:05:32,241 --> 00:05:34,413 and some of that is to see if Gribble cracks. 52 00:05:34,517 --> 00:05:36,448 He doesn't show any real stress response. 53 00:05:36,551 --> 00:05:38,758 He starts to laugh almost sarcastically. 54 00:05:38,862 --> 00:05:40,620 This is also where we start to see 55 00:05:40,724 --> 00:05:42,655 more and more of those psychopathic traits 56 00:05:42,758 --> 00:05:44,000 really emerge. 57 00:05:44,103 --> 00:05:47,551 He's not expressing any stress about what they know at all. 58 00:06:37,896 --> 00:06:40,241 What we see is what we would expect to see 59 00:06:40,344 --> 00:06:42,793 with most teenagers -- he's scared, there's not a lot 60 00:06:42,896 --> 00:06:44,482 of energy, and he's somewhat defeated. 61 00:06:44,586 --> 00:06:46,793 But what he is also is cooperative. 62 00:06:46,896 --> 00:06:49,689 The minute you have a crime partner who's willing to talk, 63 00:06:49,793 --> 00:06:52,827 you've got leverage, and most significantly and obviously, 64 00:06:52,931 --> 00:06:54,344 what they now have is a witness. 65 00:07:51,413 --> 00:07:54,068 You almost hear in Marks's account of this 66 00:07:54,172 --> 00:07:55,931 that he's still in disbelief 67 00:07:56,034 --> 00:07:59,068 that his friends really didn't have the same plan in mind. 68 00:07:59,172 --> 00:08:01,206 It wasn't about robbing these two people. 69 00:08:01,310 --> 00:08:02,482 They wanted to kill. 70 00:08:02,586 --> 00:08:05,137 It was maybe indulging in and giving in on a fantasy 71 00:08:05,241 --> 00:08:07,724 and an urge that they had both had for some time. 72 00:09:02,551 --> 00:09:05,068 He is saying, "I'm not using being a sociopath as 73 00:09:05,172 --> 00:09:06,241 an excuse," 74 00:09:06,344 --> 00:09:08,689 but he does disclose that he had the bad childhood, 75 00:09:08,793 --> 00:09:11,586 which I feel is an excuse or some mitigation. 76 00:09:11,689 --> 00:09:14,241 I think that he's also just grandiose, 77 00:09:14,344 --> 00:09:17,482 and he wants to show them how smart he is. 78 00:09:17,586 --> 00:09:20,103 Look, I have insight into myself. 79 00:09:20,206 --> 00:09:21,413 Here's who I am. 80 00:09:22,827 --> 00:09:24,379 SAHNI: What we know about Gribble 81 00:09:24,482 --> 00:09:26,620 is in 2007, he had been in trouble 82 00:09:26,724 --> 00:09:28,724 for sexually harassing and inappropriately 83 00:09:28,827 --> 00:09:30,034 touching someone. 84 00:09:30,137 --> 00:09:33,310 And in the process, his family took him to see a therapist. 85 00:09:33,413 --> 00:09:36,551 One of the things that emerged was that he was off the scales 86 00:09:36,655 --> 00:09:40,034 high and elevated in the domain that we think of as 87 00:09:40,137 --> 00:09:41,793 sociopathy or psychopathy. 88 00:09:41,896 --> 00:09:44,931 Oftentimes in media, we hear interchangeably 89 00:09:45,034 --> 00:09:46,931 the term psychopath, the term sociopath. 90 00:09:47,034 --> 00:09:48,862 And it's important to realize that for us as 91 00:09:48,965 --> 00:09:52,206 forensic experts, we talk about it as psychopathy, 92 00:09:52,310 --> 00:09:53,862 but they are the same terms. 93 00:10:56,137 --> 00:10:57,000 DET 2: Yeah. 94 00:11:10,793 --> 00:11:11,689 GRIBBLE: Umm... 95 00:11:21,551 --> 00:11:25,586 FOX: Gribble is almost, uh, minimizing his culpability. 96 00:11:25,689 --> 00:11:27,275 He's saying, "I'm not like that. 97 00:11:27,379 --> 00:11:28,379 "I'm a better guy. 98 00:11:28,482 --> 00:11:30,655 I just kill, and I just get it over with." 99 00:11:30,758 --> 00:11:34,206 And it almost sounds like he's trying to juxtapose himself 100 00:11:34,310 --> 00:11:35,655 with a way worse person, 101 00:11:35,758 --> 00:11:38,310 belittling the fact that this was a gruesome, 102 00:11:38,413 --> 00:11:39,862 horrific murder. 103 00:13:17,310 --> 00:13:19,482 He's reliving it almost like somebody would be 104 00:13:19,586 --> 00:13:21,241 feeling joy when they're retelling 105 00:13:21,344 --> 00:13:22,620 about a family vacation. 106 00:13:22,724 --> 00:13:25,931 He clearly enjoyed this, despite the butchery 107 00:13:26,034 --> 00:13:29,517 and just how sadistic and inhumane this was, 108 00:13:29,620 --> 00:13:31,172 and yet he's enjoying it. 109 00:13:31,275 --> 00:13:34,206 And it's clear, as he's telling investigators, 110 00:13:34,310 --> 00:13:36,586 I imagine if we could watch him as he's telling it, 111 00:13:36,689 --> 00:13:37,689 he'd be smiling. 112 00:14:06,241 --> 00:14:09,379 SAHNI: The fact that Gribble's first thought is to go back to 113 00:14:09,482 --> 00:14:11,517 the fantasy of a horror movie 114 00:14:11,620 --> 00:14:13,655 really speaks to the fact that these guys do 115 00:14:13,758 --> 00:14:15,103 not live in reality. 116 00:14:15,206 --> 00:14:20,172 They have really fused what is play-acting and made for TV 117 00:14:20,275 --> 00:14:23,896 and movies and violence that is contrived for entertainment 118 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,827 purposes to that being their script. 119 00:14:26,931 --> 00:14:29,448 Their way of navigating the world is this script 120 00:14:29,551 --> 00:14:30,655 that they have crafted. 121 00:15:23,103 --> 00:15:26,655 These teenagers can't wait to get home 122 00:15:26,758 --> 00:15:28,620 and see whether there's any buzz. 123 00:15:28,724 --> 00:15:30,793 They follow the news closely, they start talking to their 124 00:15:30,896 --> 00:15:33,620 friends about what they did, and that's where we really start to 125 00:15:33,724 --> 00:15:37,172 see the ego and the self-focus that this was a thrill kill. 126 00:15:37,275 --> 00:15:39,931 What is important in this explanation he gives 127 00:15:40,034 --> 00:15:41,793 the detective is while on the surface, 128 00:15:41,896 --> 00:15:44,310 it sounds like there's a little empathy for this 129 00:15:44,413 --> 00:15:47,793 child victim, he then very skillfully and sadly 130 00:15:47,896 --> 00:15:49,689 turns this all back to himself. 131 00:15:49,793 --> 00:15:51,310 And that's where we see the narcissism. 132 00:15:51,413 --> 00:15:53,620 It's now about his own traumatic experiences, 133 00:15:53,724 --> 00:15:55,551 his life as he sees it. 134 00:16:17,655 --> 00:16:20,931 TUSSEY: Individuals with psychopathic traits do seek 135 00:16:21,034 --> 00:16:23,551 stimulation, and they also may get an adrenaline 136 00:16:23,655 --> 00:16:26,551 rush from hurting other people, or, you know, 137 00:16:26,655 --> 00:16:31,413 they get a thrill and a rush out of seeking opportunities 138 00:16:31,517 --> 00:16:32,862 that benefit them. 139 00:16:32,965 --> 00:16:34,965 Had Gribble not gotten caught, 140 00:16:35,068 --> 00:16:37,620 there are so many red flags that this would be 141 00:16:37,724 --> 00:16:40,310 a repeat offense, that he could engage 142 00:16:40,413 --> 00:16:42,000 in this type of behavior again. 143 00:17:32,068 --> 00:17:33,137 SAVOY: Um... 144 00:18:05,862 --> 00:18:07,551 Marks and Glover were attracted to Spader. 145 00:18:07,655 --> 00:18:09,275 They weren't bothered by the idea of doing 146 00:18:09,379 --> 00:18:10,517 a home invasion. 147 00:18:10,620 --> 00:18:12,241 They weren't concerned about their future, and they had 148 00:18:12,344 --> 00:18:15,758 a more antisocial outlook in life -- where Gribble fits into 149 00:18:15,862 --> 00:18:19,551 this is that Gribble and Spader went back to childhood. 150 00:18:19,655 --> 00:18:22,379 Their families went to church together, but somehow, that 151 00:18:22,482 --> 00:18:26,310 disturbed thinking of homicidal urges was the nexus that may 152 00:18:26,413 --> 00:18:28,344 have bonded Spader with Gribble. 153 00:18:28,448 --> 00:18:31,724 TUSSEY: Christopher Gribble and Steven Spader seemed to be 154 00:18:31,827 --> 00:18:33,103 like-minded in some ways, 155 00:18:33,206 --> 00:18:35,896 very interested in looking out for number one, 156 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,620 very interested in achieving whatever they want to achieve, 157 00:18:39,724 --> 00:18:40,827 however they need to do it, 158 00:18:40,931 --> 00:18:43,137 robbing or hurting people if they need to. 159 00:18:43,241 --> 00:18:44,310 So it may be, you know, 160 00:18:44,413 --> 00:18:46,931 in a sense that individuals with similar psychopathic 161 00:18:47,034 --> 00:18:49,827 traits sort of gravitate toward one another. 162 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,068 SAHNI: Once we escalate to trial, and we move forward, 163 00:19:22,172 --> 00:19:24,310 Gribble makes claims that he's insane. 164 00:19:24,413 --> 00:19:27,068 What we see is this complete failure to take responsibility 165 00:19:27,172 --> 00:19:29,206 and a lack of willingness to take responsibility 166 00:19:29,310 --> 00:19:30,896 for his crime. 167 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:35,413 GRIBBLE: I wanted to get out and have a real social life. 168 00:19:35,517 --> 00:19:37,137 I wanted to torture my mom to death. 169 00:19:37,241 --> 00:19:39,620 I'd get to the point at night where I just really wanted to 170 00:19:39,724 --> 00:19:40,758 sneak in my dad's bedroom, 171 00:19:40,862 --> 00:19:42,310 pull the gun out, and shoot myself in the head, 172 00:19:42,413 --> 00:19:44,482 because I just wanted it to end. 173 00:19:44,586 --> 00:19:47,586 MAN: You actually told Dr. Drukteinis about a month ago 174 00:19:47,689 --> 00:19:51,137 that the people in the jail have no idea how dangerous you are. 175 00:19:51,241 --> 00:19:52,068 No, they don't. 176 00:19:52,172 --> 00:19:54,241 I smile, because it's funny that all 177 00:19:54,344 --> 00:19:56,310 the people in there have no idea who they're messing with. 178 00:19:58,206 --> 00:20:00,655 TUSSEY: So he's talking about wanting the social life 179 00:20:00,758 --> 00:20:02,034 that he was deprived of, 180 00:20:02,137 --> 00:20:05,482 but it's another indication of trying to 181 00:20:05,586 --> 00:20:08,758 reject responsibility, like this wasn't all me. 182 00:20:08,862 --> 00:20:10,793 Look, I'm a product of my environment. 183 00:20:10,896 --> 00:20:12,689 I'm a product of my upbringing. 184 00:20:12,793 --> 00:20:14,655 You know, I think this is performative. 185 00:20:14,758 --> 00:20:17,034 I think he's enjoying being on the stage, 186 00:20:17,137 --> 00:20:18,655 so to speak, of the courtroom. 187 00:20:35,620 --> 00:20:38,000 WOMAN: I could go on for days and days 188 00:20:38,103 --> 00:20:41,275 and days about the depth of your depravity. 189 00:20:41,379 --> 00:20:44,965 But it is sufficient to say that you belong in a cage.